In this article we will try to explain the new Eve timers as simply as possible and in as much detail as we can. This article will encompass all the new timers and their causes and consequences. Before we get into the nitty gritty let me just say I think the new timers and the way they work are some of the best changes CCP has made in sometime.
The old timer system often left you wondering if you could dock, log or jump through a stargate. There were often hidden timers that you were unaware of, which made it difficult to play safely. I am sure there are a lot of capsuleers that have lost an expensive ship or pod due to a hidden timer or to a timer that was misjudged. Well there is great news for all you capsuleers, because in the next major expansion due to be released on December 4th 2012, as the whole criminal mechanic is being changed.
To Download This Guide as a PDF Click Here: Crime Watch Timers Guide
The new features are all being categorized under Crime Watch, in this article we will only be focusing on the new timers, but Crime Watch will cover many different mechanics. These include the new bounty system, the new kill rights system and the new timer system. We think it is better to focus on one mechanic at a time, so this article is all about the new timer system.
Before we get to the timers there is another important change that ALL players need to be aware of. There is a new button to the top left of the HUD this button is used to change your safety settings. The button location can be seen in the image below.
There are three settings in the safety section, once you click the button you will be presented with the 3 options. The first option is “Enable Safety”, when this is set as your safety setting you will be unable to do any action that will get you any type of criminal timer. Whilst set to Enable Safety you cannot do any act that will give you a suspect timer, but this does not mean you cannot engage other parties. If you came across someone with a Suspect Timer you could engage them with this safety setting set. Below is an image of what the setting window looks like when you open the safety settings window.
The second option is “Partial Safety”, if you select this option you will be able to do some criminal acts freely. This option will allow you to receive the Suspect Timer, but will also stop you from receiving a Criminal Timer. If you choose the third option “Disable Safety”, this will allow you to commit any criminal act and makes it possible to receive a Criminal Timer. All the timers will be explained below, but as you will see in the image above the “Disable Safety” has been selected. But this option will not take effect until you click the confirm button on the right side of the menu option.
The New Timers
There are several new timers which are all now visible whilst they are active; all active timers now appear at the top left hand corner of your screen. The timers appear in the space above the system details and will stack side by side as they open. You can have multiple timers open at any given time and these timers will stack from left to right. The timer will have an icon in the centre with a circle line around the outside of the icon. The line around the outside is the actual timer and will countdown to zero and disappear when it is finished. Each timer has different colours for each type of timer, this makes it easy to tell the timer at a quick glance once you are used to the different colours. We will now go through the timers one at a time and list causes and consequences of each timer, we will be as in depth as we can with each timer.
Capsuleer Log-Off Timer
Cause: Combat with another capsuleer
Consequence: Ship will remain in space after player logs off until the timer expires.
Initial Duration: 15:00 Minute
This timer has a 15 minute countdown from your last aggressive act and you will get this timer in all cases of combat with another player. You will get this timer regardless of if you are the aggressor or the aggressed. Just so this is very clear we will use a simple example to show how this timer is received. For this example lets say you are in a low sec system in an asteroid belt killing NPC’s (ratting), when another player warps into the asteroid belt . The other player then targets you and aggresses you, this can be with any module such as warp disruptor, guns, webifier etc. it doesn’t really matter what module. In this case the other player is the aggressor and you are the aggressed. In this example you both get the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and it lasts for 15 minutes. Players need to be aware even though they were not the aggressor they still get this timer.
Once you have this timer no matter what ship you are or even if you lose your ship and are in your pod, if you log off now you will stay in space for the length of this timer. Your ship or pod will warp off to a distant spot in space, but is still able to be probed down and destroyed even though you are offline. It used to be possible to reset this timer by jumping through a stargate to a new system. There is no way to reset this timer, once the timer has started it will not reset until it counts down to 0:00. If you have any aggression while this counter is still visible then it will restart at 15:00 minutes and will keep doing this every time there is some sort of aggression. This timer does not affect you in any other way except for logging off.
Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer
Cause: Combat with Non Capsuleer
Consequence: Ship will remain in space after player logs off until the timer expires.
Initial Duration: 5:00 Minutes
This timer is activated when you are in combat with anything other then another player, this includes Asteroid belt NPC’s, Mission NPC’s etc. This timer starts as a 5:00 minute timer and will remain whilst you have a Non-Capsuleer aggression. I will give multiple examples of this timer, for the first example lets say you are running missions in high security space. You accept a mission and the mission is in a 1.0 security system. You go to the system where the mission is located and warp in to the mission. The first NPC (rat) targets and engages you; this will start the Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer. The timer will not start counting down until you have no NPC aggression. This means if you are at war or someone has kill rights on you and they probe you down and you see them and log off to make it so they cannot aggress you. The player that has combat rights against you can still probe you down for the entire time of this timer, which starts at 5:00 minutes. Might be a safer bet to try and warp out rather then log off.
For the second example we will start with you roaming around low security looking for a player to shoot. You come across a target who is sitting at a low security gate; he looks like he is away from his keyboard. You decide it is worth the risk to shoot him, maybe he won’t shoot back and if he is away he won’t jump through the gate before you kill him. You target the other player, warp scramble him and open fire with everything you have. You will get a number of timers at this point, but we will explain the others at a later stage. Right now you will have the Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer. Now let me explain why you have this, because you attacked the other Goody a gate you have been targeted by the gate guns, which are a Non-Capsuleer. This timer will not start counting down until you warp away from the gate, jump through the gate or simply get off the grid that the gate is on. This also means if you logout while you have this timer anyone can probe you down and destroy you whilst you are logged out. Please note even if you jump through a stargate to another system this timer will not reset, you must wait for it to count down entirely before it will disappear.
Cause: Aggression against another Capsuleer
Consequence: Unable to dock or use stargates
Initial Duration: 1:00 Minute
This is the standard aggression timer; this timer has always been there it was just an invisible timer. Now that this timer is visible it makes it much easier to calculate when you can dock or jump out through a stargate. For an example lets say you are warping to a stargate in null security space (0.0), you come across a player in a battlecruiser sitting on the gate. You are in a battlecruiser so you think what the heck I am going to give this Goody go. You target the player and warp scramble him and then lay into him with all the weapons you have. The moment you pressed the warp scramble module you will have got the Weapon Timer, this timer will remain at 1:00 minute until you stop aggressing the other player. He fights back and you get even more excited and then there is a large spike in local (more players jumping in), you know you are about to be blobbed by the targets corporation or alliance friends. You quickly disengage your modules and start approaching the gate.
The moment ALL your modules finish their cycles the Weapon Timer will start counting down. You are in range of the gate to jump, but you still have 30 seconds on your Weapon timer, the gate will not let you activate it. The blob is starting to arrive and target you. There are still 10 seconds to go, can you survive. The counter hits 0 and you click jump and you live to fight another day. Wasn’t it so much better to see the counter knowing you only had a short time to go before you could jump, so much better then spamming the jump button and not knowing how long to go. People will probably still spam the jump button, but at least you can see how long there is to go. This timer effects players in all security systems from 1.0 to 0.0 and while this timer is counting down you will not be able to dock in any station or jump through any stargate.
Limited Engagement Timer
Cause: Involved in a limited engagement (will list number of players)
Consequence: Will list all the players that can attack you freely
Initial Duration: 5:00 Minutes
This timer can only be acquired through combat with other players; the timer is between players that have had combat with each other. For this example I will simply use a 1vs1 combat to show how the timer works. Let’s say that you are in a low security system and you have just scanned down another player in an asteroid belt. You warp into the asteroid belt and target then warp scramble the other player before he can warp out. You then engage the other player with all your weapons, you will have other timers right now and these will be explained better later in the article. But you will still not have the Limited Engagement Timer; you will not get this timer until your target aggresses you back. So let’s say your target decides to try and fight you and he aggresses you back, as soon as the other aggresses you with a weapon or a warp disruptor etc the Limited Engagement Timer will appear.
The limited Engagement Timer will start at 5:00 minutes and will remain at this time until you or the other player stop aggressing each other or one of you lose your ship. Now for this example let’s say that the player you aggressed has got out of warp scrambling range and warped off to the nearest stargate and jumped out to a high security system. You quickly chase him and jump into the high security system just behind him, you quickly move in space to decloak your ship and wait for your target to decloak. Once you see your target decloak you check to see that the Limited engagement Timer is still visible and it is because the timer has not reached 0. You quickly target and warp scramble the target again and start shooting him again, which also resets the timer to 5:00 minutes. Because you have the limited Engagement Timer you were still able to aggress this pilot and it makes no difference what security level the system is.
The fight continues and the other pilot keeps fighting back, the fight goes on for a short time and you win when the other pilot’s ship explodes. Now here is the new exciting feature of the timers and people at first may be surprised by this but if you have the Limited Engagement Timer no matter what the security level of the system is you can now attack other pilot’s pods. So if we kept going with this battle you could quickly target the other pilots pod and destroy it. After you destroy the other pilots pod the Limited Engagement Timer would start counting down again until it gets to 0. But remember if you come across the same pilot again whilst this timer was still active you can freely engage him in any system regardless of the security level.
Cause: Committed a Suspect –Level Offense
Consequence: All Capsuleers can engage this capsuleer
Initial Duration: 15:00 Minutes
The Suspect Timer has basically taken over the Global Timer, but it does not really resemble the Global Timer at all. The suspect flag can b acquired in many different ways and will change the way Eve Online works forever. It is simple to know what will give you a Suspect Timer, simply any act that will make you lose security or be considered as a criminal act. We will use a few examples here to explain what will give you a Suspect Timer, unfortunately we cannot cover all aspects but hopefully these examples will make it much clearer.
Before we start the examples we should explain what the Suspect Timer means to those who acquire it. If you do any act to acquire a Suspect Timer you will be a valid target to ALL Eve Online pilots. Yes I said ALL players, so if you got this timer in a system that has many players you could get more people chasing you then you might like. The Suspect Timer can be acquired in all security systems except null security (0.0). Any player that acquires the Suspect Timer will be easily seen in any system, all suspects can be seen in local chat of the system the suspect is in with an yellow flashing skull beside their name. A suspect can also be easily seen in the overview, as suspects are marked by the background of the suspects selection box in the overview is a solid yellow and will have a flashing yellow skull on the ship icon.
For this example we will look at high security systems and things you could do to get a Suspect Timer. For this example we will say we are in a high security system anything above 0.5. You warp into an asteroid belt and can see a mining barge and the ship is sitting beside a jettison can. The miner is putting his ore from his ship into the jettison can and another player is collecting the ore from the can and is delivering it to a station. You approach the jettison can and you open the can to see what is inside it, you see there is some ore in the can. You take the ore out of the can and place it in your cargohold, this is normally called can flipping. Now as soon as you take the ore and put it in your cargohold, you will get the Suspect Timer. This means you are now a target for ALL players; this timer will start at 15:00 minutes and will start counting down and will continue to countdown to 0 unless you commit another criminal act.
In the past committing this sort of act (can flipping) you would only be flagged to the player you stole from and his corporation. In the new crime watch this is no longer the case, you will be a target to all players. You will not be a target for any of the NPC police, such as Concord or the navy. This is also the case for stealing from any can or wreck etc, this is also for people who steal from mission wrecks. Probing down a mission runner and stealing from his wrecks would have flagged you to him and his corporation, but now it gives you the Suspect Timer and makes you a target to all players.
For the next example we will use a PvP fight, as there are many changes that people will need to know. For this example we will use a low security system this is 0.4 to 0.1, let’s say you have found another player killing NPC’s (rats) in an asteroid belt. You target the player and warp disrupt him before he can warp out, you then engage him with your weapons. Now as soon as you warp disrupted this player you will lose security standing for the crime and you will get the Suspect Timer. This means the other Baddy 2an attack you without losing any security and it also means all other players can attack you whilst you have this timer. Now I did say earlier that the Suspect Timer was replacing the Global Criminal flag, I will now explain how different the Suspect Timer is compared to the old Global Criminal Flag.
If you engaged a player in this manner you would have got the Global Criminal Flag, this would make the background of your selection box in the overview turn hard red to other players. You also had a flashing skull on your ship icon in the overview and a flashing skull beside your name in local chat. Now the Suspect Timer is very similar with changes to the overview etc, but instead of your overview selection box being hard red it is now hard yellow and has a flashing yellow skull on your ship icon and a flashing yellow skull beside your name in the local chat window. Players should note the Suspect colours have taken over the old “Player has security below 0”. Now for some very important changes to this timer, originally if you had a Global Criminal Flag and you warped to a station or a gate the gate or station would start shooting you. With the new Suspect timer if you engaged a pilot in a belt or off grid of any stargate or station you can warp to a station or a stargate and they will not engage you at all.
Now using the same example above but instead of being in an asteroid belt, he is at a stargate instead. If you do any act that will give you a Suspect Timer you will of course lose security standing and the star gate guns will start attacking you, but there are still more differences then the old Global Flag. If you then warped to the station the station would engage you as well. But now you can warp away from the gate and go to the station, the station will not engage you. The next explanation may surprise some people but I assure you it is correct. If you were a Global Criminal and you jumped through a gate into a high security system, as soon as you decloak you would be attacked by the Navy and Concord. This is no longer the case with the new Suspect timer. You can now jump into a high security system with a Suspect Timer and the stargate, navy or Concord will not attack you at all. This is even if the gate guns were attacking you on the other side, but remember you are a Suspect and all other players can attack you. Just as a note if you jump back through the gate and return to the system that you were being shot by the gate guns. The gate guns will not re engage you, this is also the same if you warped off the gate and returned immedietely, the guns will not engage you unless you commit another illegal act.
Cause: Committed a Criminal –Level Offense
Consequence: All Capsuleers can engage this capsuleer Concord can also engage in High Security
Initial Duration: 15:00 Minutes
This timer works as it always has this is basically the old Global Criminal flag; it basically only appears if you commit a criminal act in high security space (0.5 to 1.0). The only other reason I have found is if you destroy another players pod in low sec and they have not aggressed you in anyway. The other way is if you aggress a player in high sec that you do not have any legal right to attack. Let’s say you warp scramble a ship in a 0.5 system you will receive the Criminal Timer and Concord will engage you immediately and ALL other Eve players can also attack you while the timer is active. If you have a Criminal Timer in low sec the low sec gate guns etc will not engage you, unless you committed the actual crime that gave you the Criminal Timer in the first place at the gate. If you jump into high sec with the Criminal Timer from a low sec system, Concord will engage you.
I am sure many people can think of many other different examples and ways these timers work. But we are simply trying to make it a little easier for people to understand the changes before they come into effect. We will now have some more examples, but this time we will go over each timer you will receive for these examples. We hope by explaining the timers in this manner will make it even clearer then the above information. For these examples we will use the player names of Goody and Baddy, hopefully this will make it easy to keep track of each player in the examples.
Low Security PvP
This example starts in a low security system (0.4 to 0.1); Goody is killing NPC’s (rats) in an asteroid belt when Baddy warps in. Baddy now targets and warp disrupts Goody, now as soon as Baddy warp disrupts Goody he will lose security standing. This is because it is a criminal act to attack other players in low security space. Baddy will also receive multiple timers for his aggression on Goody; being the aggressor Baddy will receive 3 timers at this stage. Baddy will get the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Suspect Timer and the Weapon Timer. Goody will also receive a timer even though he has committed no aggressive acts. Goody will receive the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer.
Now if this is how the fight continues without Goody fighting back, there will be no additional timers for either player and all the timers will stay at their full time until aggression stops. when Baddy destroys Goody’s ship Baddy will lose his target lock, this will start all timers counting down because the aggression has stopped. Goody can now try and warp his pod out and get away, but if Baddy does manage to target Goody again and warp disrupt him. Baddy will lose more security standing and will reset all the timers for Baddy and Goody. If Baddy destroys Goody’s pod Baddy will again lose more security standing for destroying the pod and once the pod has been destroyed Baddy’s Suspect Timer will now change to a Criminal Timer. As it is a criminal offence to destroy another pilots pod in low sec with no legal target rights. Now Goody’s timers will start counting down again, even though Goody is now safely in a clone vat bay in his home station.
Low Security PvP
This example is going to be very similar to example one only Goody will fight back. So once again we start with Goody killing NPC’s in an asteroid belt when Baddy warps in. Baddy targets and warp disrupts Goody. Baddy will lose security standing and receive 3 timers. Baddy will receive the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Suspect Timer and the Weapon Timer; Goody at this stage will only receive the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and will see that Baddy is a suspect by looking at Baddy in his overview. Goody would have also heard an alarm to say he had received a timer just as Baddy would have as well. Now Goody can easily see that Baddy is a suspect by looking at him in the overview and in the local chat window, besides the fact that Baddy’s bullets are ripping into his shields.
Baddy will show up in Goody’s over view window with a solid yellow background and a flashing yellow skull on his ship icon, as well as a flashing yellow skull beside his name in local chat. Let’s move on with the fight and Goody decides to fight back, Goody targets Baddy and warp disrupts him. This will now make both players receive extra timers, Baddy will only receive one extra timer but Goody will get 2 new timers. Now as soon as Goody aggresses Baddy Goody will get the Weapon Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer. Baddy will only get the new Limited Engagement Timer, as he already has the Weapon Timer for aggression. Now both players will also notice they have changed to each other in the overview and in local chat, as well as their active target icon. The Limited Engagement timer is teal in colour and by default it is higher in the overview icon settings. This means Goody and Baddy will now show differently in the overview.
Goody and Baddy will now appear in their overview with a solid teal background and have a flashing icon with 2 swords on their ship icon, as well as the flashing swords icon beside their name in local chat. All other players in local chat will still see Baddy with the flashing yellow skull icon. Only Goody and Baddy see the flashing swords, as they are the only 2 at this stage that have the Limited Engagement Timer. Now let’s continue the fight to the end and Baddy once again destroys Goody’s ship. Both players will now hear an audible alarm to tell them the timers have started counting down again. Baddy quickly targets Goody’s pod and warp disrupts it, but this time he gets no security loss because of the Limited Engagement Timer. Both players will hear the audible alarm again which signifies the alarms have reset to their full time again, Baddy then destroys Goody’s pod and again no security loss because of the Limited Engagement Timer.
Now for some interesting features of the Limited Engagement Timer, firstly only players that have both aggressed each other get this timer. This means if there were a few other players like Baddy 2 and Baddy 3 and they were all aggressing Goody. If Goody shot at Baddy and Baddy 2, but did not aggress Baddy 3 at all then if Goody ran his mouse over his Limited Engagement Timer. The information shown would be that the timer was to 2 players and then would list them below. So by the example given above the icon information would show Baddy and Baddy 2 as having a Limited Engagement Timer Against goody. Now this also means if we go back to the original fight between Goody and Baddy, if Goody escaped and warped to a gate and jumped into another system. Even if the other system was high security (0.5 to 1.0) Baddy still has a legal target whilst the Limited Engagement Timer between him and Goody is still counting down. This also means if Baddy still won the fight even in high security system he could target and destroy Goody’s pod without attracting aggression from Concord etc. because of the Limited Engagement Timer. The Limited Engagement Timer simply starts counting down after the ship is destroyed, this makes the pod a valid target as well.
Low Security PvP on Gate
This example starts in a low security system (0.4 to 0.1) on a stargate; Goody is sitting on the stargate ready to jump through. Baddy warps in and sees Goody, who appears to be away from keyboard. Baddy is in a ship that can tank gate guns for a short time, so he decides to aggress Goody. Baddy targets Goody and warp disrupts him, as soon as Baddy disrupts Goody he loses security status. Baddy receives 4 timers at this point; he gets the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Weapon Timer, the Suspect Timer and the Non Capsuleer Log-Off Timer. The new timer Non Capsuleer Log-Off timer is received because the gate guns are attacking Baddy for his criminal act against Goody. Goody of course has received the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and nothing else at this stage.
Goody decides to aggress Baddy, as he thinks he may have a chance with the gate guns assisting. So Goody targets and warp disrupts Baddy. Once Goody disrupts Baddy, Goody will receive 2 new timers and Baddy will receive one more timer. Baddy will get the Limited Engagement Timer, where Goody will get the Weapon Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer. Well Baddy did not expect Goody to aggress so things are not looking to good with Goody and the gate guns shooting him. Baddy turns off all his modules to de-aggress. Once all Baddy’s modules have finished their current cycle his timers will start counting down. Well not all the timers will start counting down, at this point whilst Baddy and the gate guns are aggressing all timers except the Weapon Timer will stay at full time. But the Weapon Timer will start counting down and this is what Baddy wants, as soon as the weapon timer is gone Baddy can jump through the Stargate. An important note for all players is the fact that when a player stops aggressing another player, the other player will also hear an audible alarm to tell them the other party has stopped aggressing.
In this example Goody would hear an alarm to tell him that Baddy has stopped aggressing him. Baddy is now watching his Weapon timer countdown so he can jump out, whilst Goody is trying to destroy Baddy’s ship before he can jump out. Now Baddy’s Weapon timer reaches 0 and disappears, Baddy presses the jump button to jump to his freedom. Now in the past when you jumped through a gate with global Criminal flag all gates and stations would attack you. This is no longer the case, so now that Baddy has escaped to the other side of the gate he will have the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Non Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Suspect Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer. Where on the other side of the gate Goody still has the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Weapon Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer. Goody cannot jump through and pursue Baddy until his Weapon timer expires, this will allow Baddy to escape if he wants.
Just so it is clear if Baddy jumps back into the system through the same gate he left that was attacking him on the other side. The gate will NOT aggress Baddy again. But if Baddy waits on the other side for Goody to come through after Goody’s Weapon timer expires. Baddy can aggress Goody again because of the Limited Engagement Timer, but this time it will be just between Goody and Baddy, as the gate guns will not engage Baddy on the new side as he has a legal target now on Goody with the Limited Engagement Timer. The limited Engagement timer is certainly going to make things more interesting.
Null Security PvP
Due to the lawless nature of null security (0.0) not many timers will effect players there. So for this example let’s say Goody is in an asteroid belt in null security space killing NPC’s and Baddy warps in. Baddy targets and warp disrupts Goody. Because it is null security there is no criminal act, so no security loss and no suspect timer. Goody will receive the Capsuleer Log-Off timer and Baddy will receive the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and the Weapon Timer. Now if Goody decides to aggress back he will receive the Weapon Timer and Baddy will not get anymore timers. The Limited Engagement Timer does not function in null security space. By this reckoning the only timers players should receive in null security space would be, Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Weapon timer and the Non Capsuleer Log-Off timer. The Non Capsuleer Log-Off Timer will be received if you are aggressed by NPC’s in asteroid belts, missions, etc.
High Security Stealing
The new timers have changed the way stealing other player’s items works and is very different to the old flags. For this example we are going to look at what was called “Can Flipping”. Goody is mining in an asteroid belt in a 0.9 system; he is transferring the ore he is mining from his cargohold to a jettison can floating in space. Whilst his corporation friend is transferring the ore from the jettison can to a station in the same system. Baddy warps into the asteroid belt and approaches the jettison can and opens it as soon as he is in range. Baddy now takes some of the ore out of the can and moves it to his cargohold. Once the ore is in Baddy’s cargohold he receives the Suspect Timer and is now a target to every Eve player. Now in the past when you stole from a player you were only flagged to him and his corporation, but now you are flagged to all players. Also in the past you could bait another player into stealing his ore back, there were many ways to do this. There is no reason to go through these, as this does not work anymore. If you return Goody’s ore by jettisoning it into a can, Goody can take it back and not receive any timers etc.
I am sure people are thinking of ways that this could be cheated, but I have done some testing and the things I tried did not work. Baddy stole 1 unit of Veldspar from Goody; Baddy then jettisoned 2 units of Veldspar. One unit of Veldspar belonged to Goody and the other belonged to Baddy, but when Goody took both units of Veldspar Goody never got any timers at all. I am guessing it does not really matter the amounts or even if Baddy gave back one unit of Veldspar that belonged to himself it would still not make Goody a valid target.
Stealing from Mission Runners
For this example let’s say Goody is missioning in high security (0.5 to 1.0), when Baddy warps in to Goody’s mission after probing it down. Baddy starts looking through the wrecks to see if he can find some loot worth stealing. Baddy comes across a valuable item and steals it, as soon as the item is in Baddy’s cargohold he will receive the Suspect Timer. Baddy is now a target for ALL players, but right now Goody is angry at the thief, so he targets Baddy and sends his drones after Baddy. Once Goody’s drones aggress Baddy. The timer’s start, Baddy will receive the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer; Goody will receive the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Limited Engagement Timer and the weapon Timer. Now that Baddy has the limited Engagement Timer which means he can now Attack Goody without getting a Criminal Flag where Concord gets involved. Baddy still has the Suspect Timer so he is still a target for All players, but a lot of players will still use this means to bait mission runners into a fight...
It is rather interesting how the timers work with logistics, in this example we will show how a logistics ship is affected by the timers. Now no matter the system security from null security to high security (0.0 to 1.0) if you assist another pilot in anyway the consequences are the same. So for this example we will not worry about security level, but it is not null security space. So we have Goody and Baddy who are engaged in battle on a station. They are both in Battleships so they can fight for sometime, now Goody currently has the Capsuleer Log-Off timer, the Weapon Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer. Goody has these timers because Baddy was a suspect when Goody attacked him; this of course means Baddy will have the Capsuleer Log-off Timer, the Weapon Timer, the Suspect Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer.
Now Goody has a friend in the same system who is in a Logistics ship and his friend is coming to help him. So Goody’s friend warps in and targets Goody and immediately starts repairing Goody’s shield. Now the moment Goody 2 starts repairing Goody he immediately acquires Goody’s timers, yes all of them exactly the same. So once Goody 2 repairs Goody , Goody 2 gets the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Weapon Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer and the Limited Engagement Timer is with Baddy. This means Goody 2 can now be aggressed by Baddy, as Goody 2 is now a legal target to Baddy. An important note is that if Goody had the suspect Timer then Goody 2 would have also received the Suspect Timer, this means Goody 2 would be a legal target to all players just something to remember before you help a friend.
Now the changes to the logistics are a good one in my opinion, not only does it make the logistics pilot accountable for his actions but it also improves the logistics system. In the past logistics pilots could end up in a never ending aggression loop, but with the way the timer system works now is much better and will always allow the logistics pilot to always be able to jump or dock with the pilot he is there to help. The way this works is simply the fact that the logistics pilot inherits the timers of the pilot he assists. So if the logistics pilot assisted a player that was currently not in any aggression and his timers were half way through the countdown, then the logistics pilot will get the timers at half way through the countdown. This means as soon as the pilot the logistics pilot assisted timers expire unless he was assisting another pilot or the logistic pilot had his own timers which had a longer duration. His timers would expire with the pilot he was assisting. This means the logistics pilot could stay with the pilot he is assisting at all time
There are many more examples we could use to explain the timers, but I think that is enough examples for now. So in closing this article I am sure there will be many new ways for pilots to use the new timer system to bait other pilots into fights. Right now Can Flipping seems to be a thing of the past and miners will be feeling very safe after hearing that. But miners should stay alert because pilots will come up with new ways to get them. Over all I think as a whole the new timers are a very good change to Eve, but I am sure we will see these change in the future, as pilots will complain about some aspects of these timers. The first one I see that will more then likely change in the future is the Limited Engagement Timer. The reason for this is people are going to complain about the timer not disappearing after the ship is destroyed. Simply because then the players pod is a valid target even if it is high security space. I am sure CCP has made this timer this way for a reason and I expect it is to go hand in hand with the new Kill Rights and Bounty systems. I am looking forward to Investigating the Kill Rights and Bounty systems in the future to see exactly how they work. I hope this article helps pilots understand the new
Great job Darbarmic… Very Detailed Guide on the new Timer System coming to EVE.
Also, something related to Timers is how Logistics will work in high/low Security Space. Assisting someone with Logistics or any other helpful module will result in you “inheriting” all of their timers. So if you Rep a buddy on a station who has a 53 second Weapon Timer, you will get a 53 second Weapon Timer as well. Then should the guy you’re repping re-aggro, both of your timers will reset as long as you are aiding him.
My man Mic….
Well written…. real good info.
o/ mate how R U & thanks mate.
Wow fighting back against agressors gives them the right to pod you?
Update your clones.
I knew I left something out, DOH!
I updated the article with an example for Logi ships 🙂
Awesome info. Can’t wait till all the timers are belong to me.
Very informative. Nice work Mic.
Thanks Surly, I hope it helps people understand the new timers.
In suspect timer examle you say:
“Just as a note if you jump back through the gate and return to the system that you were being shot by the gate guns. The gate guns will not re engage you, this is also the same if you warped off the gate and returned immedietely, the guns will not engage you unless you commit another illegal act.”
In criminal timer example 3 you say:
“Just so it is clear whilst Baddy has the Non Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, if he jumps back into the system through the same gate he left that was attacking him on the other side. The gate will aggress Baddy again and this will reset all his timers except the Limited Engagement Timer.”
In first example you clearly state that the originally engaging gate guns will NOT re-engage if you return to them. In the second examply you equally clearly state that the originally engageing gate guns WILL re-engage if you return to them.
Which is it?
Thanks Jack for pointing this out, I had revised the article and had missed the section in Example 3. I have since edited the article and the details are now correct. If you warp off a gate that is aggressing you and go off grid and then return the gate guns will not attack you again. The same for if you jump through a gate and then return to the system the gate was aggressing you in, the guns will not aggress you again until you commit another crime. Apologies for the confusion.
Thanks for the response and clarification. An excellent writeup over all and most helpful too. =)
Well written. Good job, man.
Excellent article..lots of good info and really well delivered.
I got 2 cases I cannot explain. Maybe I missed something…
1. I got a PvP timer “red exclamation mark” (and only this timer, nothing else) in a 1.0 system. How is this possible ?
2. I had two suicide gankers attacking me in a 1.0, I was not suspect nor criminal, one guy got flashy read and the other yellow BUT *I did not get any Limited Engagement* timer to shoot back. How is this possible? So I warped away, checked the logs and saw that they were CONCORDED just after a warped away.
The Red Exclamation Mark simply means you were shot at or you shot at a player. This happens in all Security Status Systems. It’s the Log Off Timer that keeps people from logging out to avoid fights.
Suicide gankers don’t care if you are suspect or criminal. They will attempt to kill you anyway and concord will kill them for it in high sec.
Finally, you do not need a limited engagement timer to shoot a suspect or criminal flagged pilot. The pod of a suicide ganker will not be killable (have a limited engagement timer) because as far as concord is concerned he has been punished already. Podding in High Sec should be avoided.