In my previous articles about the upcoming Retribution changes that are coming on Dec 4th, I mentioned that it looked bad for can flipping. The fact that the mechanic that controlled Theft were being changed to allow "Re-Theft" pretty much killed can flipping, but I wasn't 100% sure at that point, so I didn't pronounce it dead.
But today, with much sadness for all the Griefers and the New PVPers wanting an easy first step into PVP, I am officially pronouncing Can Flipping Dead.
RIP 2012 to EVE's Most Memorable Symbol of Griefing and Piracy.
Last night I learned about a change on the Test Server called the Safety System. This is basically a setting that once set will not allow a player to do anything that would put them at risk of death. So new players will start off with this set to "SAFE" and then be unable to ever put themselves at risk of death (beyond going into low sec, or getting ganked).
A player with Safe mode set, will be unable to steal from another player, shoot at a player they don't have aggro against, or do anything else that makes Can Flipping and many other forms of High Sec PVP possible. In other words, CCP is letting Care Bears "Opt Out" of PVP.
This is another change in a long line of changes that are Buffing High Sec Carebearing. Previous changes were the large holds on Barges (making jet canning less likely), Mega hit point barges (to make Ganking harder), removal of insurance for high sec Gankers (same), and on and on.
Care Bears will of course like these changes, and most PVPers won't care about them because they don't effect Low Sec PVP or Null Sec PVP.
But what about the new PVPers who are less than a month old and want to PVP?
Can Flipping was the easiest PVP tactic for them to get out and get kills against higher SP characters with minimal training. I've had many buyers on my Frigate PRO PVP Guide watch my Can Flipping Guides, then go out and kill Cruisers and Battlecruisers with less than 2 million SP in a Frigate worth less than 5 million ISK. That was a very unique opportunity in EVE.
This change may have made care bears safer, but it has also made entry level PVP harder.
Holding the hands of new players is an unfortunate side effect of mmorpg’s. Fortunately, there are enough pvp corps that are willing to take new players under their wing to help them on their way to better fights. The buffs to T1 frigs has certainly made more people willing to take chances. While can flipping may be dead, we may be looking at new opportunities to introduce the adrenaline hungry pilots to low sec and beyond.
Agreed… I plan on doing a guide about “Suspect Baiting” if the mechanics work out right. That should be an interesting substitute.
I agree that Retribution is going to be the downfall of several things. Howerver, I think one door that is being opened is the bounty hunting system. Although I am sure it will have a lot of bugs and fixes, it is something that our corp is looking forward to. It will be interesting.
The one thing we are going to hate the most is the scrub job ccp is going to do on heavy missiles. They will certainly be a thing of the past and heavy assault missiles will take their place.
I haven’t been an Eve denizen for almost 2 years now (apart from a fleeting return just prior to Xmas last year) but I do like to keep my eye on all things Eve but to hear about this saddens me greatly.
One of the things that attracted me to Eve nearly 8 years ago was the steep (read: over hanging cliff) leaning curve and in that time have watched the game I loved contract a horrible case of “Gold Star Syndrome”. I do not disagree on any of Nyck’s very well made points but I have to say the idea of unaffiliated rogues pilot terrorizing high sec systems will now be bygone legends recited late at night to frighten and entertain young aspiring pilots.
A sad, sad day indeed……I live in hope Abby’s “Suspect Baiting” bears fruit.
I’m conflicted about this – as someone who has been can flipped and quit the game a few times since 2004 and someone who has learned the path and eventually can flipped others.
Can Flipping as we know it will be dead but people still get mad and people will still take risks. Personally I’m going to try to get fights using this new system. My favorite can flip was when two miners teamed up against me.
If they made bumping a suspect offense then I’d agree they are really protecting care bear miners. Altho that would be kinda fun.
I don’t exactly call can flipping PvP. PvP implies the other side has any capability to fight back at all, regardless of how small. Popping me in a noob ship would be PvP. But as far as attacking someone totally defenseless…. well, that wouldn’t get any player ready for lowsec PvP.
On the otherhand, can flippers and gankers have been very important in teaching high-sec miners a lesson about safety and cautiousness. Being a high-sec miner, it pains me to say this… but I hope can flipping continues even though it won’t cause kill rights anymore. And I know someone will figure out how to effectively/cheaply do the sucide ganks.
The less fun can flips are the ones the lead to killing a hauler or miner. But the ultimate goal for most PVPers is for the miners or their whole corp to go get PVP ships and come fight you.
Most of the time they would bring a Cruiser or Battlecruiser (poorly fit one) to try to kill your frigate and you could kill them.
But like WOLF said, people will still find ways to encourage Miners to fight them.
We will just have to learn to adapt to the new mechanics, first finding ways around the new war dec system and now this. CCP is making it rather difficult for people to pvp solo at very low levels. These changes will be a boon to FW and Red Vs Blue.
Most of can flippers are just like parasites, exploiting the ignorance of newbies in Eve. I do not call that PVP.
I remember the first time I was can flipped by two guys cloaked in tengus….I was in an Omen fitted with mining lasers.
What an opportunity to fight !!!
No seriously, this game is hard enough for new comers, I enjoy the fact that CCP wants to make it easier for those who already have a loooot of things to learn. I you want to learn pvp, go to low-sec, that’s the right place for that.
The safety system will not stop players from shooting at you.
While simply stealing from them will grant you a global suspect flag now (so watch for bounty hunters or opportunists) it will still aggro you to them.
As you noted, when set to on, you cannot do anything that would get you a suspect or criminal flag, however, if you should steal, you are a valid target for anyone.. and if they shoot at you at that point, it starts a ‘limited engagement’ meaning you can shoot back without concord.
all in all, the pvp system is still alive and kicking… and if someone thinks (as i once did) that you can scare off the can thieves with a round or two, you’ll still get some fights.
still… i’d certainly advise people who want to learn low SP pvp to go join a group like RvB or the like instead of trying to solo bait new hisec players. It’s a lot more rewarding an experience to know you’ve taken on people who know how to actually fight.
Good advice… Solo PVP is far from dead, but I hate to see Can Flipping go.
Suspect baiting will be the new replacement I think (like you are talking about). I have already seen people going suspect in high sec to bait attacks while having a logi team ready to back them up, so the tactics are forming. When I get time I’m going to see if I can do some solo suspect baiting and develop tactics for that.
Can flipping is PVP. So what a barge can’t kill you or tank you, the pilot still chose to engage you. As stated the ultimate goal is for the person to re-ship or call in his corpies. I used to enjoy finding players in highsec anomalies flying battlecruisers or battleships and flipping their wrecks in my harpy but now that this new system is in place I’m afraid my favorite ship will just be collecting dust in my hangar forever. Plus griefers teach players, new and old, valuable lessons about game mechanics that will carry over when they start flying more expensive ships. it’s a sad day for eve indeed, when you can’t steal without everyone in system being able to engage you. Breaks immersion too if you ask me, who’s to say the fucker you stole from isn’t a damn liar?! Wonder what CCP would say about the immersion breaking qualities of the new system? Probably some crap about concord being tapped into the on-board sensors of all ships in secure space.